Hirsbrunner Euphonium Serial Number
What the Heck is a 6/4 Tuba?This question comes up so often on various forums that I thought I'ddevote a collection of photos of various tubas so that folks couldvisualize the differences.And lots of folks ask about specific tubas, and being able to comparethem with known horns will help them in ways the unscaled manufacturer'simages can't.So, let's start with the sub-title first. What is a 6/4 tuba? BeforeWorld War II, American tuba players in bands often used a sousaphone,partly because of its portability, and partly because of its sound. Moreabout that 'American' sound you can find in the discussions linkedabove, but suffice to say that it resulted from the sheer size of thelarge sousaphone then popular. Of course, no tuba player in an orchestracould use a sousaphone, not even a rain-catcher model with the bellpointed up.
But the sousaphone sense of bottomless, enveloping soundinfluenced many players and orchestra leaders who wanted thoseorgan-like qualities in their ensembles, and they demanded a line ofvery large instruments from the American manufacturers. York, Conn,King, Martin, Beuscher, and others obliged with a series of very largeEb basses loosely called Monster tubas, and also with even largerMonster BBb and CC tubas that we now call 6/4 instruments, or Big-AssTubas (BAT, for short).In Europe, tubas were made in proportional dimensions, such that belldiameter and body size (and bore) were held approximately in scale witheach other.
Many German makers adopted a system of quarters to describethe general size of the instrument. A standard tuba was considered a 4/4instrument.
It typically had a bore of about 19mm, and a bell diameterof about 17 inches or a bit less. The Miraphone 186 described elsewhereat this site is a 4/4 instrument of that type. Rudolf Meinl makes awhole series of instruments following this naming convention. Theirlarger instrument is a 5/4, with a 20' belland a large bore, and they even list a 6/4 instrument with a 22'bell and a huge bore. Look down the page to see a 5/4Rudy, nearly as big as a 6/4 anything else.Hirsbrunner was the first European maker to specifically copy thatmost famous of BAT's, the York made in the early 1930's that was ownedby Arnold Jacobs and is now owned by the Chicago Symphony. Other similarinstruments from that era included the Conn 36J Orchestra GrandBass, and various huge Holtons andMartins.
(Holton's explicit copy of the York didn'tcome until the 50's, and Martin always stuck to their own design as didConn). When Hirsbrunner offered their York copy,nicknamed the Yorkbrunner (and later the HB-50Grand Orchestral), they apparently wanted a way to describe theinstrument's large size that would not be possible with just a picture.They used the term 6/4 in their description, in line with Europeanconvention. But unlike the Rudolf Meinl series, these horns are notproportional in bell size, body size, and bore.
The bells are large, thebodies huge, but the bores typical of 4/4 rotary tubas. So the body sizeis probably the most accurate way to think of these designations.But there is no standard for these terms, so they mean nothing thatcan be objectively measured. Consequently, some comparison photos willhelp people understand what the terms mean. The terms don't define theinstruments, the instruments define the terms, and that is themotivation for this article.While visited Dillon Music recently, I asked if I could take somepictures of the tubas they had in comparison with my own York Master.The York Master is what I have measured and called a 4/4 tuba, but afterthis comparison I'm revising that determination and calling it a 5/4tuba. You will see why in the photos below. My thanks to Matt Walters atDillon Music for tolerating my careful moving of instruments I cannotafford to take pictures of them.(For photo buffs wandering in here from my camera pages, all thepictures in this article except for the first were taken with a RussianFed 3 rangefinder 35mm camera and a Jupiter 12 35mm wide-angle lens.
Thefirst photo was made with a surprisingly excellent Canonet 28, datingfrom the early 1970's)The first picture shows me playing a 6/4 York that was converted toCC by Bob Rusk and offered for sale by Dave Fedderly at Baltimore Brass.This is one of the most singing, easy-blowing tubas I have ever played,even though my brain does not at all work well with the CC notes andfingerings.The Author playing a Rusk-converted York 6/4 tuba.The following are the comparison photos that I made at Dillons,plus additional photos that have come my way in the years since thatvisit. A comparison instrument is in eachphoto, and that comparison instrument is also somewhere else on the pageso that serial comparisons can be made. A ruler might have been better,but the comparison reveals differences in beefiness that are not thateasy to characterize with just a few dimensions.
Serial Number Lookup
The York Masteris usually the comparison instrument, and it'susually at right in the photos; it is39 inches tall with a 20-inch bell.VMI 3301 BBb tuba. I have commented on variousforums that I thought this tuba was a bit smaller than my York Master,but it is always called a 4/4 tuba. My impression of the sounddifferences with the York seem to follow the difference in size apparentin this photo-despite being an excellent instrument didn't have thedepth of sound of the York Master.VMI Culbertson Neptune 6/4 CC tuba. Notice how muchlarger are the Neptune's bottom bow and bell throat.
This is a BAT inthe rotary style, where everything is big from bell to bore, includingthe overall height. I had difficulties with this instrument-it isclearly bigger than my limited abilities wouldsupport during my Dillons visit. But since playingthe Holton, my air power has improved and the rotary Neptunes seem a loteasier to blow now.Meinl-Weston 2165 CC tuba. The 2165 was designed incooperation with Warren Deck of the New York Philharmonic, andapparently based on a Holton design from the 50's that was loosely basedon the Chicago York. (The Holton is similar to the silver instrument onmy 'Cutting an Eb to an F' article, and also to the the Holton picturedfurther down). This instrument is a 6/4, and again the large bottom bowand bell throat are the basis for this designation.The 2165 has been replaced with the 2265, and now the Alan Baer handmadeversion, but they are all in the same size class.Conn 52J CC tuba. One of the most popular newtubas on the market, the Conn 52J is built from parts made for the King2341 BBb tuba with a bell from an older King Eb tuba.The Conn is listed as a 4/4 instrument, but the York Master dwarfs it inphysical size.
Size isn't everything, however, and the Conn is known forproducing a sound out of proportion to its apparent size. Based on thedescription of this tuba as a 4/4, however, I'd decided that my YorkMaster must be a 5/4.Jupiter 582 BBb tuba. This low-cost instrument hasbeen popular with many schools and students, both because of its priceand its playing characteristics. I like the instrument a lot. It is asolid 4/4 instrument, despite the smaller bell, and despite the factthat it is clearly smaller than the York Master.Dillon/Conn Converted CC tuba. Matt Walters createdthis instrument from parts of an old 4/4 BBb Conn tuba.Holton 345 Dillon-converted CC tuba. The Holton is aclassic American BAT that is even larger than the York from which it isreportedly derived.
I thought this instrumentplayed pretty well, but not as good as that lovely converted York at thetop of this article, and not as good as my own Holton345 (shown further down).Holton Factory CC compared with Boehm and Meinl/Rusk CCconversion. This photo was suppliedby Dale Phelps, who owns both instruments pictured.
I put it here for acouple of reasons. The first is that it lets you compare a Holton CCconversion with the factory-produced Holton CC tuba. It also lets youcompare a Boehm and Meinl tuba that was converted to CC by Rusk with myBoehm and Meinl-made York Master. They aren't exactly the same. Dale'sB&M uses a one-piece bell of somewhat larger throat than my York Master,but the other outer branches appear almost identical, in comparisionwith the Holton.
The difference in throat is exaggerated by the lowercamera angle in the photo at right. Dale's Holton is 39 inches tall-thesame as my York master, and all the tubas have approximately the samebell diameter within an inch or so. The converted Holton, and theconverted B&M, are about an inch shorter, probably as a result of theconversion.Holton BB-345. This is my own Holton thatis in its original key of BBb, shown at Baltimore Brass on the day Ibought it. The York Master is at left in this picture.Rudolf Meinl 5/4 CC.
This Rudy is now ownedby Ray Grim, compared with my 6/4 Holton BB-345. Most believe that the5/4 Rudy is a 6/4 in anybody's book, and this picture doesn't disproveit. The bell throat may be a touch fatter on the Holton. Rudy has a 6/4,too. I've seen and played one that is now owned by Mike Lynch. It is atruly awesome instrument that dwarfs any of the behemoths shown on thispage. You could roll quarters through the valve branches, but it issurprisingly easy to play.
The 5/4 Rudy pictured here is also a pleasureto play. I am grateful to Alex Rogge, a professional event photographer,who made the picture for me at the 2007 U.S. Army Band Tuba EuphoniumConference, and then gave me permission to publish it here.Conn 20J. These are big tubas that use thesame basic outer branches as most all the Conn 2xJ and 3xJ-series tubas.These tubas may have top-action or front-action valves, and may havefixed or removable bells. But they are all big. Some have called them5/4 instruments, or have stated they are smaller than the classic BATsuch as the Holton BB-345 that is on the left, but I can't see thedifference. The Holton is the same instrument shown above.King 1241.
Hirsbrunner Euphonium Serial Number Lookup
This is the older style of thedetachable-bell 2341 model, with upright bell. The 1241 has the doubleloop in the upper branch of the third valve, and the top bow of thefirst-valve branch is fixed rather than being movable as with the 2341.The 1241's also had a 22' bell, while many of the 2341's had 20' bells.The forward bells were 24'. The valve body is basically the same as thecurrent fixed-bell 2341, but the new model has the bottom bow and bellstack from an old Monster Eb Bass, as with the similar Conn 52J (seeabove).
The Kings are BBb instruments. As you can see, the olddetachable-bell 1241 and 2341's were tall instruments-41' at least. Butthey are not really fat instruments, and they fall squarely into the 4/4category.Old King. I don't really know what model ofold King this instrument happens to be, but it appears to be aforerunner of the 1241 with a fixed bell. It's shown here next to a 6/4Conn 24J for comparison (the 24J is similar to the 20J shown above).York Model 716. Dave Schaasfma thought hewas buying a Blessing, but it turned out to be a York Model 716 labelledas a Blessing. It's the instrument on the right, in the queue forrestoration.
The one on the left is a beautifully maintained YorkMaster, as made by Boehm and Meinl, and quite similar to my own. HisYork Master is older (1955), and closer to the original York model.Cerveny ACB-601-5MR CC tuba. The big Cerveny isostensibly a 5/4 instrument, but most players rank it in the 6/4 class,and you can see why.Dillon/Beuscher/Nirschl converted CC tuba. This isanother Matt Walters creation, and one of the warmest and mostmellow-sounding tubas I've ever played. Breathe into it and it sings.It's made from a Beuscher bell, a Nirschl bottom bow, and either aNirschl or Meinl-Weston valve body (I forget which).
My York Master wasmade by Boehm and Meinl, which is now owned by Walter Nirschl, and thetwo bottom bows seem identical between these instruments. The Beuscherbell sounds so nice on this horn that I've considered finding one andhaving it fitted on my York Master. Dillon Music calls this horn a 5/4,and it does fall in between, say, a 52J and a Holton.